Peg & Heather_Episode 5

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Peg: Welcome to Recovery, the Whole Enchilada. And I'm here with my friend, lovely Heather Hageman. And between us, we have over 40 years of sobriety. And we, in this podcast, we explore the layers of healing and transformation in recovery. So we welcome you to join us for insights and guidance and inspiration as we seek recovery, the whole enchilada of self awareness. of self love and true fulfillment.

So let's, let's journey together. What do you think about that, Heather?

Heather: like a plan.

Peg: And today we're going to be talking about wellness and self care practices, which is always one of my favorite topics because I'm, I don't consistently do that. Even with as much sobriety as I have, life gets in the way. [00:01:00] Many times. And with this topic, we're going to dive into self care techniques and wellness practices that contribute to a fulfilling life post recovery.

 I have learned to take much better care of myself in in recovery because I care about myself. And that means, The basics like eating well and exercising and, getting enough sleep and at the same time, as important as meditation is, I don't do it as much as. I could, because when I do it, I feel so much better.

So , what do you think about that?

Heather: really good topic. I, because it's not something I could hear very well when I was new in recovery, all I wanted to do was just stop drinking, stop feeling bad, , that feeling that though that phrase sick and [00:02:00] tired of being sick and tired. I, whenever I hear that, I, I go, Oh my God, I remember that feeling.

And so I think in the beginning I, just wanted to stop drinking and I didn't really know what to do next. , so my self care in the beginning is I started smoking cigarettes. And I'm just telling you that because I'm giving up one thing, I'm going to go for another thing.

And I did it, I smoked cigarettes for about a year to try to help down regulate me. When I, when I look back at that though, Peg, I feel like smoking is just another way of learning how to breathe. And using your breath to how to calm your system, it's, it's not, it's maladaptive, but when you think about smoking, you know you're taking that breath in with the smoke and you're blowing it out.

 So I'm just saying that's, it's an interesting thing to think about. So if you're smoking right now, just know that you're just trying to. do breath work to feel better, after I did my first initial one year and had to stop smoking, I started, I tried to eliminate the things that, were harming me, but I ruled that first year was really tough.

Was that, that was tough [00:03:00] for you too? Did you, do you remember what you were doing as far as self care the first year? Cause it was just getting to a meeting and, Working the steps. I mean, there was very little I could really focus on, but, to just stay sober one day at a time in the beginning.

Peg: Yes, I smoked as well. And I'm, that was just something to like a coping mechanism for me in my first year and my first few years, actually. And, it was a habit I picked up while I was, while I was, Drinking and using and tried to quit four times cigarettes. I finally did, but it was not, an easy process.

In many ways for me, it was harder and because I could do it anytime, anywhere if I wanted to And so I learned probably in my second year or so how to start modifying habits. I knew that, [00:04:00] the recovery journey that I was on, was to help me to stop drinking destructively, to help me stop drinking.

Period. And that being removed from me was a miracle and I thought, well, if that, if that's the case with my alcoholic drinking, I'm sure I can get the help I need to start removing some of these bad habits from my life. Including smoking, because I knew it was bad for me, and yet at the same time, that part of my brain wasn't the part of my brain that compelled me to smoke.

The part of my brain that compelled me to smoke was the part of me that says, Oh, you want to feel better about yourself and in your skin, so this is what you're going to do. And for me, it was that sort of lizard brain, maybe it's called, you would know it better than I. [00:05:00] But it, that sort 

Heather: It's your limbic system. Yeah, it's your, it's your, it's your reptilian. It's your older brain. It's like, feel good, more dopamine, feel good. I want more. 

Peg: Mhm. So cigarettes for me sugar was a big One. I do like sugar and I, I need to watch that because it's, again, I'm not advocating one way or the other if anyone should eat it or not eat it. I know for me, it was not, refined sugar is, not my friend.

Heather: and I think, I think that surprised me for some reason. All of a sudden now I'm smoking and needing sugar. And, and I'm actually going to meetings that, that, that have bowls of sugar, bowls, bowls of candy. And people are saying to me, don't worry about it, just eat the sugar right now. But you know what?

That thinking is not really, I think it's unhelpful now. I mean, that was over 20 years [00:06:00] ago. I would, I would, I would love it if we had fresh fruit at a meeting fruit, something very healthy because, because so much of the recovery process is. Learning how to start at ground zero. How do I feed myself?

How do I take care of my skin, my body taking showers. Even just the simplest thing of when I get up in the morning, making my bed. I mean, just making my bed. And so I was thinking about the marble analogy. Isn't it like the first year you lose your marbles, the second year you get your marbles back, and the third year you learn how to play with your marbles? So this idea of like, it's the first three years, I think you have to be, you try to do little baby steps of self care and not be too hard on yourself because you're really trying to change a pattern that you've had for a long time. And I mean, I drank for 20 something years and to, and then to all of a sudden now come into this and I want to feel good and I'm feeling terrible.

[00:07:00] So the journey is really, like I said just a little while ago, it's like trying to eliminate the things that are going to kill me the quickest. So that was alcohol and drugs. And then, smoking was going to kill me quickly and I ended up developing a lung autoimmune thing from cigarettes.

Thank you very much. So just to say there's, some of us need really intense consequences to drop things. And I, and I've often wondered with the sugar, if it's going to be, diabetes or what, what. It's going to take for this person in recovery to get it. But I mentioned before Peg, and , I'll just say this again.

I mean, I really see that a lot of what I'm doing is I'm just wanting to feel better. I'm very uncomfortable with the feelings and the living on life on life's terms, the ankle biters , that got me and I'm, and I want to explode and react. And I, and I just feel like the journey is to really stay in the [00:08:00] moment , and work on being present and affirming that nothing's going on right here.

It's all in my mind, these obsessive thoughts. Right. And and so what. The words to describe that is the frequency of addiction is still in my mind. And, and so addiction to me is that it just, the side effects are shame, guilt, and remorse. And so it's like I still have it going and then I feel really ashamed when I eat a one pound bag of M& Ms, just as an example.

I feel guilty. I feel remorse afterwards. So that's how you can know the frequency of it. of what these behaviors are doing, if that has that side effect. It's got an initial, yay, this feels so good, kind of, kind of a F it sort of feeling. I'm going to eat what I want or whatever. I'm going to consume what I want.

I'm going to buy what I want, whatever, whatever, something I'm doing has an initial like, yes. [00:09:00] And then afterwards you're like, What did I do? So this frequency of addiction is like a whack a mole. We've got to really work on that as we do long term sobriety together, 

Peg: Agreed. That's a very good way of putting it too, because we have or at least I had different, angles to my addiction and, and can still display those behaviorally. I don't have the physical obsession or the physical craving for, alcohol. In my case, alcohol, I didn't do, really do drugs, but alcohol is a drug.

And I did a lot of not such great things on alcohol. And, I found that in, working this recovery, I needed to look at deeper layers of myself [00:10:00] and how that was affecting me and why I would do certain things. I rarely turn the mirror on myself. It was much easier for me to point at you and let you know what you should or shouldn't be doing.

And when I would do something that wasn't, that was less than healthy for me, I, I did need to, and this is where recovery has helped me a lot. Turn the mirror back on me and say, what's going on with me right now that I, I'm feeling this urge to eat all the sugar or, escape in some other way. And I have to be aware that there's something deeper going on.

And I'm feeling, as I shared with you earlier, restless, irritable and discontented . And I'm like, why? And sometimes the only why for me is the fact that I am a recovering alcoholic and [00:11:00] those are the symptoms of recovery and, frankly, I believe their gifts because they're pointers and it points me to what I need to look at. It will help me to determine what I'm feeling or when I'm trying not to feel and why. I have found that these other distractors really are pointers for me. And, and I also don't believe in 100 percent deprivation when it comes to things that are, let's say it this way.

I 100 percent believe that I cannot drink. That is not going to happen today. And there are other times when I want that Klondike bar. That's in my freezer. And maybe I've worked out or I've taken a walk or I've done, I had a healthy meal that day. I will treat myself to that and I look at it as a treat and not as an [00:12:00] escape. As long as I can keep a balance with that. I think what brings some meaning to life , is these treats and these X, these rewards were we have a reward center in our brain and it's nice to have those little rewards that we can look forward to that are relatively healthy. It's balancing that because I also have the disease of more.

And so if there's one Klondike bar, there might be three I might want to eat. And I've learned, okay, balance is key. Okay. I'm not going to deprive myself because then I'm going to feel even more compelled to want to do it. So I'll have myself a Klondike bar and enjoy it.

Heather: Yeah you bring up a good point because I think for people in recovery, I'll speak again for myself, but maybe you all can relate. Anytime you tell me no, and and tell me I can't have it. Oh my gosh, I just don't hear things correctly. I'm just going the opposite direction. [00:13:00] So I have to be very careful and it's very important to not go black and white all or nothing , like you said, I have to be black and white all or nothing kind of mentality around drinking.

It's like, it's done. Done. There's no, it's a complete abstinence. Okay? But, now we got all the other things out there, and they, and they actually call them process addictions. When does it become an addiction, and when does it just become this habit, and it's just, it's, it's a balanced habit that you have.

Like, every time I, I eat, Any kind of meal and food is the hardest one, I think, to deal with because it goes way back to the start of life. I, I found a picture of myself as a two year old. Oh my gosh, I wanted to share it with you, Peg, where I'm on the, I'm sitting on the floor and I have a lollipop in my mouth , and I had this look on my eyes like a deer in headlights.

And I was just like, that's my little two year old that comes out as an adult me and I get those lollipops. So it's like, Okay. This idea , of enjoying it, like you said, another thing too. So if I, if we are going to, [00:14:00] and have something being clear that we are grounded in our our routine and we, and that we feel We're not eating out of shifting something, but just for the pure enjoyment of a dessert after a meal, let's say, and that you sit and you enjoy it.

You don't gobble it up and go into a trance like, you know, you could with this stuff because a lot of it is trying to run away from feelings too so, but it can be that way with shopping with Amazon. Oh my gosh. Sometimes I, I get boxes on my front doorstep and I think, oh my gosh, what did I, am I doing blackout shopping doing?

And, and I hope you were hearing that. No matter how much time you have, we're still really human. I think now is, I laughed at myself cause I'm so goofy now. Like, or maybe I didn't, I don't take myself so seriously. I think for the many years I did, it was something that was told to me to stop taking yourself so seriously.

But but coming back to trying [00:15:00] to live in a way that supports your sober journey. It's to find, to find a balanced way. And , how does that look? And everybody has , their own way of , of figuring this out. And for me I have found, I had to seek other sources and I, landed in yoga and I've talked about that before.

And, but one of the things I'd love about yoga, I feel like a lot of it's very comparable to our recovery system in a sense, because what they're teaching you is to. have a daily practice where you, and they're not saying do yoga moves. They're saying a daily practice where maybe you get on your knees and , you do a sun salutation on your knees and you breathe, , or maybe you're in child's pose and you flip your hands over and , you say to a higher power, relieve me of this.

Help me with this. So , so for me, because my body was the instrument of, I [00:16:00] was trying to destroy my body. My journey now is to befriend this body and say good morning to my body. Hello. Hello body. And, and begin to get embodied by doing some of these movements, because that's what yoga is really trying to teach you, how to get into your body and be comfortable in your skin and feel this felt sense of wholeness so that you can make better choices for yourself throughout the day.

You were, what were you saying, pointers, were you saying pointers? Yeah, I was thinking pausers too. Like there's, there's, when, when these things come up, like you're feeling restless and discontent and, and you're, and maybe you're reaching for the second Klondike bar or whatever, these are, this is when we want to do the pause and really just really take some breath, like a blow out, or first let's exhale just anchor into the body.

Use an affirmation to stabilize your emotions. P A U S E. That's kind of what I tell myself. So anyway, but that's, I think it starts first [00:17:00] with what we do first thing in the morning and it's kind of sets the, the stage for the rest of the day. Wouldn't you say?

Peg: Yes. And I like those practices. I don't often do a yoga pose, but I'm going to, I'm going to incorporate that. I think, before I go to bed as well, especially child's pose, by opening Sort of opening up yourself to that day when you wake up and really setting a positive course for the day.

And there have been times I have flown out of bed and like, Oh, I've got to do this. And I, I launched right into the list of things that I would like to get done that day. And I'm I'm already at the end of the day by the time I go down to get coffee. And, sometimes I look back and I'm like, how is life going by so quickly?

And for me, it's because I'm always thinking, futurizing things and thinking [00:18:00] ahead versus. What's happening right now and sort of anchoring myself into the floor and, and feeling grounded and thanking my higher power for another Day. and doing some deep breathing and sort of getting set like that, that setting of oneself in the morning for me anyway, to reset or to set and to look myself.

In the eye and say, I love you. And some people are like, Oh my God. But it, for me, that works because for so long, I couldn't look myself in the eye for any reason. And today I can, and I can say to that woman, I love you. And I truly mean that. And, that for me, when I can remember. , if it's prayer or if it's just quick meditation or looking [00:19:00] at myself and Affirming my humanity and loving myself no matter what, that does help set the course for the day and I remember too, I can start my day over any time and so knowing I have this practice or these tools to use is very helpful for can sometimes be rocky days,

Heather: So I always tell people go slow. I tried to tell, I'm glad people told me over and over again, Peg, was just be gentle with myself. Be gentle with yourself. Go slow. Add little bits of things. Don't take anything away until you're ready to let it go. That was really important too. Just, I don't, I didn't want to make any drastic changes.

Quitting drinking was the drastic change. So, and then from there, if I could just, sometimes I think on my tombstone, I just want the words, she never drank again or something like that in the number of years that I have, because I feel like this is one of the greatest accomplishments of my life. [00:20:00] The , the other piece too, , so starting your day, but also So to, we have as a, as a suggestion to take these spot check inventories throughout the day, kind of check in how you've been doing to include in the inventory, not just about my way that I'm dealing with life, my character, maladaptive defenses that I have that I'm doing a sort of a check in on, but also to check in on the body.

So, so doing these spot check inventory body. talks to like how's my mind? How's my breath? How's my body? Am I here? Do I feel myself, my feet on the ground? I feel, and can I take some breaths? I'll do some deep breath work. And I'll do that throughout the day. Every two or three hours, I just sit. I get up, walk around, move my shoulders, there's we'd move the spine in seven different directions.

That's where our nervous nervous system is. And so when we do this especially if we have sleep issues, which is one of my biggest teachers [00:21:00] is that I will inevitably be a lot calmer going into sleep. And I will have started to I won't be like, go, go, go. And then like, Now I'm going to lie down and sleep.

So now I've had this day of like checking in and making choices throughout the day to not increase my heartbeat through caffeine and different things, but to make choices that I really want to get to sleep. Now the reason I mentioned sleep peg is that I'm a, I really believe that that's probably one of the most number one things that we really need to focus on in early recovery and continually in recovery because if we're not sleeping, we're not healing.

And so sleep is becoming, it becomes a huge priority. so that's something that I, that I do and work on with myself on a daily basis. But most people that are coming to me in early recovery are not having, not sleeping well.

Peg: Why do you think that is

Heather: I think the medicine of that's been keeping them balanced like the medicine of, [00:22:00] ethanol.

And then once that's removed, I think the cortisone, all the different functioning things are now going into survival mode because you don't have that, I'm going to be fighting or fleeing or freezing. And now I can drink alcohol and just dial all that down. And now that that's gone, all those defense physiology is coming up.

So now, now I'm Oh, I'm I'm anxious, , I don't know how to dial it down. So by the time we Try to go to sleep at night. We're so riled up. And as, as a lot of us do, we like, we start doing nicotine. We start doing a lot of caffeine. Oh my gosh. Do you see people in recovery drinking Red Bull after Red Bull?

I mean, oh my gosh, because we're, we're definitely again, trying to feel better, but we're also not helping the healing process by focusing on better sleep.

Peg: right? So you'd mentioned these sort of stimulating drinks, like Red Bull and other things, which inherently there's nothing wrong with Red Bull. I'm sure. [00:23:00] I mean, I don't drink it because I think it would like light me up way too much caffeine. And however, I, do notice the same thing and, it's a way to calm ourselves down too.

And, and it seems sort of like counterintuitive, but that is how I believe, like sometimes I'll use sugar thinking it'll calm me down or coffee or some kind of stimulant like caffeine and it has the opposite effect. And so I enjoy like two cups of coffee in the morning and that's pretty much it because it caffeine and I have a decent relationship in the morning if I keep it balanced, but if I have anything for the rest of the day, and sometimes I do, I can feel it going into my sleep time and you had [00:24:00] mentioned this, the central nervous system and how we can become dysregulated.

Just by life by being triggered by life. And so explain Heather a little bit about what dysregulation feels like, because for me, I was dysregulated so often. And I just found it to be a normal way of being until I realized, Oh, I can calm this down. And, and I liked the alternative. And so now I can, at least with that contrast determine.

When I'm feeling a little dysregulated or a lot dysregulated. share what we should be looking for when that's happening. So we're more conscious of it.

Heather: So I was thinking while you were speaking that I think we're so numb In the early years that were kind of [00:25:00] thawing out in a way. So you're right. We don't really know what kind of feelings we're having . That's some, sometimes I've heard people say, I guess at what feelings I have. And so, so just again, being that practicing that gentleness, but, as you unthaw, there's going to be, I feel like this is also part of the journey of recovery.

There's a lot of intensity of emotions that come. I remember feeling a lot of grief that I had lost so much of my life. to drinking. And then I remember feeling a lot of anger , at myself and other situations. And so there's this intensity so that like you said, the balance isn't there.

You're going up and down and there's just, so , to probably start off with would be to I'm really focus on being safe. The most number one thing to do is to be safe in where you're living, your environment, safe in who you're hanging out with, safe with the people you call up, because all of these things are going to help your nervous system to calm down.

Because the one thing we [00:26:00] know is that When we're in addiction, we are isolated. We do not want help. We are going to do it ourselves and we're disconnected. So the journey back is to come out of isolation, to reach out for help, to connect, and to let people who have calmer, more regulated nervous systems be around us so that we can Get that same reciprocal feeling because that's basically one of the defense things that we have now It's called social engagement and they're saying that is a really great regulator for people to come back to balance And so one of the things I do to try to get myself back into that social engagement I'll reach out call somebody I'll go to a meeting or I'll go and be to the studio, the yoga studio and take a class.

I mean, there's different ways, but rather than run and isolate, I go towards people to begin that journey [00:27:00] back to myself because , that's the first step and the lens of safety is, is paramount in the healing process. And so when I do get dysregulated which I can now feel it now because I'm in such a, I've spent so many years in this yoga path and, and using the tools that I've learned from recovery the, the meditation and all that different things.

I can feel the, it's like a, a sizzling and I'm using these fingers. It's sizzling that starts to happen around the back of my neck, starts to climb around the back of my head. And I start to get And my shoulders start to hunch and I start to clench clenches. So part of the journey would be , to write down what's happening or trigger and then to talk to the trigger in a sense, like, Okay.

I'm feeling this stress. Talk out loud. I'm noticing these are two words that we're going to we'll keep your brain online. It'd be very helpful to keeping you in that [00:28:00] prefrontal cortex area. You begin to say, Oh my gosh, I am noticing that I'm feeling heat around my throat. I'm, I'm observing that my stomach is feeling clenchy.

 If you can be in this state, It's observer without judgment way of looking at yourself. You can hold it together enough and maybe to call somebody and say, listen, this is what I'm feeling right now. I'll tell you, being someone who's been in recovery for a long time, I don't do that as much as I used to.

And I regret it because I know that it'll get me, it was a tool that I use that gets me out of my explosive whatever I'm going into fight, flight, or freeze. Because I'll just tell you this past week, I found out that my That my health insurance had gone away, like they completely took me off my health insurance and it was a, series of mistakes they made.

So when I went to get my, go to the pharmacy to get meds, they said, you don't have health insurance. You [00:29:00] don't have this. So, calm Heather, grounded and breathing well, would have just gone, okay, that's just a mistake. It's not personal. I'm going to call. We'll figure it out. I didn't work out like that and I, and I could feel it just coursing through me.

And I called and left messages at the insurance company telling them I felt violated and how could they do this? I mean, it was just, it was embarrassing. So sometimes we grab it in time, sometimes we don't, but I was down, we call it down the limbic system rabbit hole where you are at the mercy of your reactionary self.

And so we have to protect that deep part of our brain, which is the limbic system. We've got to stop that area. To not get activated by staying in this social engagement, by being, being connected, by keeping language going, by talking to somebody, because we lose language in our limbic system. So these are some of the tools that I use and some of the ways I try to know, what to do.

Where my triggers are. That would be the first step is to know what your triggers are [00:30:00] and then Learn how they enter your body and then learn what you can do to move them out of you You know, whatever ways that looks movement breath and then talking to somebody it's all perfectly packaged That's what that seems to help

Peg: That is very helpful. There are times when I have felt what I call hijacked by my limbic system and feeling really dysregulated. And it can be something that I, I would not have thought of. would be a triggering event until it happens. And, and so at least it's, it's brought me some education because now I know, Oh, that's interesting, I didn't realize that, that that life event would seem like , a very minor thing.

Situation really had an effect on me and I'm feeling, sort of this rush of [00:31:00] adrenaline and I stop when, when this happens, I am not able to formulate words to tell you what's happening. I want to run and I don't want to deal with people. I want to do the exact opposite of what you, recommended.

And I see now why, and there are going to be times when I, I say you go into the grocery store and you're just feeling overwhelmed and this panic starts to, to well up in your solar plexus and it starts to take over and you don't really have, time or you're not in a situation where you can reach out to someone right away.

What could you do to physically start to regulate yourself. Like , what could you do , in a moment where you're feeling that dysregulation and you don't have someone there you can't really access anyone at that time. And [00:32:00] that's going to happen. What can we do to take care of ourselves in those moments?

Heather: You know It's so interesting that you mentioned the grocery store because I think what has happened to me because I've had panic attacks in grocery Stores, so this is a good question peg is that I'm so overstimulated by all the colors and the words and, and just too much of everything in front of me.

And so what I will say in a situation where there's a lot of sensory eye stuff, I would, Remove myself. I would have to look to the ground and I would walk out of the store and you know Just to remove myself and dial down this the sensory it's it's it's just too much. It's just it's coming at me.

It's just too much I need to I need to kind of first let's just start with what my eyes are seeing and let me get myself away from where I'm at oftentimes walking away from wherever you are is a good start But once I would get outside I would rub my face I would rub my shoulders and I would rub my knees and then I [00:33:00] would take a breath in and then out. And the idea is to lengthen our exhales because when we're in that fight or flight we're in that chest breathing. You want to get that. We want to get the sub diaphragmatic area to work to send messages to the brain. I'm not. running. I'm not fleeing. Everything's well, right? So stomping your feet, going outside and looking up at the sun, looking at different things out there, looking and, hearing what's out there The touch is a good one too, but just kind of going through this like five senses.

Do I have a taste in my mouth? Do I smell anything right now? Just, just trying to get yourself into just complete now time and then telling yourself as you're doing this, everything's okay everything's okay, don't you worry sweet darling, of course you're feeling overwhelmed. You've had a lot going on in your life, darling, like calling yourself darling and sweetie and just being really kind to yourself and, [00:34:00] and then getting on that phone and calling somebody because that's, that's what will help finish that last bit, just trying to figure out.

Or even looking at faces of people can help you. Maybe trying to smile, even though you're feeling crazy, just like smiling or just even saying to somebody, I'm really anxious right now so we have, we have ways of doing this, but it is really, it is not easy. And I, I just know that it's a process.

It's one step forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back. It's just this process. We get it right. We don't, that's okay. We just keep trying and keep trying.

Peg: I like that. Just keep moving forward. Keep trying. And what I hear is really cultivating this self awareness after a time of being pretty numb. And I remember when someone would ask me, How are you feeling? And I had no idea how I was feeling. Because I was so cut off. from [00:35:00] my, my head and my body. And so what I've learned for, better self awareness is what am I feeling right now and where am I feeling it?

If I'm feeling fear, where is that fear in my, my body? Where am I feeling it right now? And really , befriending emotions, because we have them for a reason. And, I have learned that, being gentle with myself, which you've brought up many times, I think that's key, to not, being hard, On ourselves that critical parent, if you will, that's in our head, was for me a default.

I could fall into that so quickly and not , realize I was doing it and really coming back to that loving higher self and saying, What you just shared, Heather, was, honey, it's okay, you're good, you're safe. And then start [00:36:00] counting. What are the five things I see or hear or smell? And then the touch and really hugging ourselves really and touching our shoulders and whatnot.

That does help bring us back to what's real. Because what's happening , when that happens for me isn't real. Real. My brain thinks it is, but it's not. And we have that sort of overriding higher self that can take the wheel and say, all is well and you are safe. And I think you are, when you mentioned safety, I do think that's, that's at the root of it is, is fear , of not feeling safe and, not feeling good enough.

And so those root, issues or core issues are what have how recovery and of course therapy [00:37:00] outside help, which I 100 percent advocate because it's been, I mean, you and I aren't therapists, right? We're not, this is for educational purposes, our podcast. But when I've had to have therapy, I go to a professional and I get the therapy I need because they can Offer me a wider perspective or a different perspective.

And that has been very helpful, for understanding myself because when I understand myself , and I can start connecting dots that, dysregulation doesn't happen as often because I don't see it as this sort of incoming enemy that's going to hurt me. I see that I am okay and these are the things I have to do to take care of myself and of course reach out to safe people and let them know, hey, I'm feeling this way.

Right now I'm feeling sad. I'm feeling afraid. I'm feeling angry and it's okay. [00:38:00] Especially women who in my case anyway, have brought up to, to think that anger was, was not okay. Now weaponizing anger is not okay. And I would do that when I was in my disease is I would weaponize my anger today. I don't weaponize it, but I feel it and I don't look at it as the enemy anger with love.

Means change, if I'm angry, but I'm not in this difficult, negative place, then I can, bring about the change in my life that's needed. Because again, anger for me is a pointer. There's something going on that I need to change in my life and within myself or in my external circumstances and utilize that as useful information.

Yeah. And, and for me, distractors have also been people, it's some people can be like [00:39:00] candy for me. And so I've had to learn to, not give away my power to other people. And this can be, we can go into more depth on this in a future podcast, but , what are your thoughts , on that?

Because I know for me. There, are some people that can be like a drug and it's because I thought of them as my redeemer when in fact, My Redeemer is my higher power, whom I choose to call God. , But there are times when I'm like, Oh, that person has all the answers and will make me feel whole and wonderful.

And then I get hijacked again. So whether it was nicotine or refined sugar or certain people. That I could become addicted to [00:40:00] because I did not know how to connect with that. Inner feedback loop that I have inside of me, that moral compass, that higher self, I, had a hard time, connecting with that part of myself, but when I did, I realized that I wasn't seeking this external I was getting more of that from within myself. And that has been another. of, of recovery post recovery, especially, right?

Heather: Thank you. Because really, truly, I believe the journey for myself has been that I become a safe sanctuary. That I become secure. And they call it earning secure attachment. I am enough. And I, think when we're not attached, you know, we're [00:41:00] avoidant, we're anxious, all the different detachment theory, we've, I think we touched a little bit about that at growing up that it plays out in our relationships later.

But the ultimate goal is to be self sufficient, right? But also self actualized , , and we have other words that say that. It's like selfish and self centered. No, I'm moving away from that and I'm moving into just this care of the self. And and so inner emotions are energy in motion and that the journey is to learn that they're, they just, they're energies that move through and how can we move them through, not get stuck, not act on them, but just to allow them.

And one of the things that I. That I love queuing to myself because I heard this. It was so beautiful. Do your best to welcome everything as a curious observer, and that's something that I learned along the way, not let things pierce me, not let [00:42:00] things poke me, but to just be. Wow. I'm noticing.

And, and a lot of those years, I didn't notice what I was feeling, but I just, I started with, I'm noticing, let's start with the body. I don't know what the thoughts are, but let me just start right here with, I'm noticing my hands are gripping. I'm feeling pain in my searing pain in the back of my neck. And just as we get to know ourselves and get to know our bodies, The idea is that we become so safe and have such an internal sanctuary that externally when that shiny bauble of a person shows up and they seem to have it all together and I want what they have and they're, I just, I just, I'm so out of focus on them because if I know them, they're going to give me something and I, thank goodness that falls away.

But you know, for many years we had to look to others to figure things out. We didn't have any choice. So, so it went on for a very long time that we had no sense of self, [00:43:00] because we were all externally focused on how to survive our life, but also how to navigate people and figure out how we could use and manipulate and work with people.

We don't use anymore. That's something that, that ends in recovery. We no longer are users. And so what we do now is we learn how to become, generous, useful service oriented people. And to live our life, if we could, like a loose garment, but also to just keep remembering to just welcome everything as a curious observer with no judgment.

I think the judgment thing is, is one of the hardest things, and we'll probably maybe talk about that along the way too, but.

Peg: Exactly. The self excavation, which is really why we wanted to start this podcast, because, there are insights and guidance and inspiration that come to us when we have removed that cloud of addiction and we've had the grace of having that cloud of addiction removed. And I'd [00:44:00] like us to in future episodes, investigate and discuss more about personal relationships and how those affect us and help us and sometimes distract us.

So we can maybe think about that a little bit more, and we'd love to get your comments. We would certainly love your likes. And please subscribe and know that recovery and the whole enchilada, it's the entirety of the gifts that come from recovery and that self awareness and ultimately self love.

And at the end of the day, we all deserve that. So we'll see you next time.