Heather 0:00

Welcome to Recovery, the whole enchilada podcast dedicated to exploring the many layers of healing and growth within the recovery community. I'm your host, peg McDermott, along with my co-host

Peg 0:14

Heather Haman.

Heather 0:16

We share conversations that honor the complete recovery experience, and today's conversation is about triggers. And temptations and how that affects those of us in recovery. And you know how life throws us those curve balls and it's oh, I didn't expect that to happen. So what are your thoughts on that?

Peg 0:41

A trigger. There can be varying degrees of triggers in how they land, right? It can be a tiny little trigger and you just feel a little constriction, like in their throat. Or it can be a huge visceral response to something that's going on that's related to a past trauma or significant event. We have that same peg. Remember, if it's hysterical, it's historical.

Heather 1:05

Yep.

Peg 1:06

And and I love that when I first heard that, I was like, oh yeah. And so every time I have a huge response to something I have to pause. I couldn't do it very well in the beginning, but as years have gone on, I try to pause and I try to do that little, I can't remember exactly how it goes, face trace erase and replace or something like that. I try to go through okay. What's face, what's going on here? You're definitely activated. There's something happening. Where's it coming from? Because whatever's happening in front of me was just the trap door that just dropped me down to another time period. And rather than being afraid, which I used to be very afraid because what happened when I would have these extreme responses to the world, I would immediately wanna shut it down. And what's the best way Drink do something, a drug or alcohol quickly and fast, man, that will just, that's that's the firefighter. Put out the fire baby. Just and do it quick and fast. And so when you're, when I got sober and I made the choice to abstain from these things, I. It's awful to feel a trigger and to really be hijacked by it and then to lose time. And it can be a smell, it can be a sound, it can be a location. That's what we tell people. Please don't go into bars. How many sponsees did you have or people that you mentored that The young people, the young ones that meet their friends at a bar in their early sobriety it took years for me to go back in a bar and not get that euphoric recall.

Heather 2:43

Yeah

Peg 2:44

I.

Heather 2:44

And I think it's everyone's personal choice depending on where they're at and you know how, what their spiritual con conditioning is like I always someone says they're going out to a bar and they're gonna enjoy themselves and dance and whatnot. I just ask them to check in with themselves. See, where are you at right now? Is this a place where you feel you can be safely because there will be alcohol there and maybe other things you don't know. But it's a, you've gotta be prepared for it ahead of time if you're going to be even. Events, weddings. I just came from a wedding. There wasn't a lot of drinking, but there was drinking. I noticed it. I always noticed if there's drinking going on in the room, because I think it's important to be vigilant. It's a cunning and baffling and powerful disease, alcoholism. And for me, a lot of the times I would go into situations even sober where I really wasn't aware of how I was doing. And and I would, go get in a situation like with friends that I maybe used to drink with or be in a bar and getting ready to go to dinner and may we're waiting, but we're waiting near the bar and I notice that I'm having I'm triggered and it's that euphoric recall. And I realized, oh, that's interesting because when I'm in a stressed situation, a life stressor. It doesn't always happen today, but the thought of drinking will pass through my mind because it was a coping mechanism, and when it crosses my mind, I don't play with it. I don't turn it over back and forth. I don't do that. I just let it pass and I move on because I don't even walk down the wine aisle at a grocery store. I don't do it because it's too, it can be too inviting. It's very seductive and I don't wanna play with that. And so I'm always very careful if I'm gonna be in a situation where there's alcohol or someone I know will be, I just check in. Check in with your mentor, check in with someone. In recovery and let them know, I'm going to this place. I'm gonna be doing dancing. I'm gonna enjoy myself, there's gonna be alcohol, and I'm just letting you know ahead of time and then have an exit strategy. If it gets to the point where it's not feeling safe, you know that okay, you gotta go and that's okay. So I think it's important to understand and identify. Trigger patterns. There's emotional patterns and environmental patterns and social patterns. And with the internal triggers, there's like stress and loneliness. And I know I drank a lot over getting stressed or anything that was not great going on in my life. That was a great excuse to drink heavily or loneliness and. The external ones like we're talking about are people, places, and situations. And sometimes people can be a trigger and and a temptation. And so I used people, like I used alcohol, and so I have to be careful about that too. It's like we don't use people anymore. That's not what we do. That's not what I do. And at the same time, I'm not. I'm humble enough to know that isn't something I can manage on my own. I need to talk to my sponsor, and I need to have a relationship with my higher power. I need to be honest about it. And whenever I've had a drinking dream, I share about it because that is telling me something's going on with me. It's a pointer.

Peg 6:58

I don't know why this has come into my mind, but I remember when you're talking about people, the joke of the two-legged bottle, right? I was thinking how I was new. I was I'm not I. Completely in a different body. I felt like I was just, I had a new life starting and I, at the time, I was really getting into working out. So I would go to this some kind of nutrition store and there was this really nice young guy that would help me. I was trying to get certain proteins and things like that, and so I made it a habit to go there and pick up. I think I was doing Atkins bars, whichever it was, and I have conversations with him about working out well then. And I'm just being me 'cause I'm excited my life. And then I remember, I think it was like the third or fourth time I walked in there and he said, he goes, I really like you. I'd love to go to the movies with you outta me. See young guy, I'm, I back then, I guess I was like 40 or something I was just like, but and then I had that momentary thought. Just a thought, just a. And then I was like, oh no. But but just being aware that these things can come at you just from surprising places and spaces. But I do know that when I have been like standing outside of, let's say a restaurant, any restaurant, basically, let's say a busy restaurant at night, I always have, and I'm going out with friends. We're going to eat food. We're not partying. As soon as that door opens, there's like this. We call smoke coming out. There's no more smoking. But it's I go back to that time where the smoke comes out, you hear the laughter and the banter and it, and the sparkly lights and the clinks and drinks and it's just for that one moment I just had this little mini euphoric moment, like just that excitement and that anticipation. And then I'm like, oh. Yeah. No. I can think that through that is not gonna be fun when I think about me at the end of the night closing the bar, slurring and not wanting to go home and then crying 'cause I'm gonna be hung over the next day. Just it was just so sad. So I just know that a lot of what I've gotta do now is actually be very careful where I place myself. I need to be safe in what I do to, that's one of the things. Identify these triggers, know that they're there. All of us probably gonna be there. But how much do I need to be exposed to them? So when I plan out my life, now, how do I where, who am I gonna be with? Where am I gonna go? What's fun for me? Am I around other people that define fun the same way I do? Because when I've been out with people that don't define fun this way and going and sitting at a bar and drinking and laughing, it is and I've gone and done that. I've gone and done that and and it's not that great for me. I'm not sitting there going I wanna drink, but I'm just like not really enjoying the, that bar be outside in a back deck of a person's house. And they're having there's different scenarios where it works better. I'm not gonna cut off everything and live a hermit life. And I think that's, a lot of people need to know that when you're especially in early recovery listening to this, no, we can still have fun. We just gotta figure out how to keep ourselves safe for this fun, but redefine what fun really is and know that. When we go to people's houses to be with people, don't go in there to drink anymore. We just go in there to be with people and to hear what other people are doing and to be to, and to be curious and to be sharing and to really connecting rather than, oh my God, they don't have enough. Whatever it is, they don't, it's just a, we gotta just go forward in a different way in a new way, a new awakened way,

Heather 10:49

yes. And I think too that I. We have to be aware, we have to be hyper aware, especially when we're new. But we have to, I have to always be aware. I have to be vigilant and not think that I got this because I don't have this. I have it one day at a time. I have a disease that, lasts for 24 hours. The reprieve lasts for 24 hours. That's it. And it's a reset the next day. And I had to take my medicine. And that is just loving myself enough to know that's not the path I wanna go down anymore. I didn't like myself back then. It was destructive on my being and others. And I also look at. If someone shares with me that they were triggered, or if I feel triggered by any reason I also look to see what is it trying to tell me? What is it trying to show me? I think it's important to dig underneath that because I don't want to feel something, I don't wanna deal with something I'm afraid or I'm shut down or something. And that is I don't always know on my own, but I know that there's something up. And I need to talk about it and find out if there's anything underneath it that I need to be aware of. And drinking dreams come up when I'm trying to avoid something or I don't wanna feel something. Triggers happen more than they usually do. And I have to also be careful about halt. Am I hungry? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I tired? Because those things are the very first things I have to look at that we should look at. I would say, because that can bring on a trigger pretty quickly, if I'm hungry, if I'm angry, lonely, tired and take care of those first, right? And then look at, okay, what else is underneath what else might be going on beyond halt and talk about it. Because it's a, it was a coping mechanism. I didn't wanna feel. I didn't wanna deal. And so I would turn to alcohol or people or work or sex or shopping or whatever would take me out of myself. But for me, the number one culprit was alcohol. And it, wants me dead and I don't wanna be dead. I love being alive. I love life today. And I also know that again, it's a 24 hour reprieve. And that is why what we're doing, you and I do, and what we do, and we share with others and others, share with us why that's so important to have that community, that support system, because loneliness is a part of this disease. And it's very easy to fall into that it is for me and wanting to isolate and that's what I believe the disease wants is wants to get me alone and then convince me in my own voice that I don't have this disease. I. So being aware, halt environment, people, situations. Just being aware of those things because life isn't gonna stop being life. We just changed. We have different tools today.

Peg 14:32

And then a lot of my work with with clients and with people in recovery. I listen to a lot of stories and I hear a lot of abuse and traumas that people have gone through, and that can be very unnerving to be. The receiver to listen to that. There's actually a disorder called secondary stress disorder, which is you are vicariously being affected by the person's story. Happens a lot, particularly with with people working with children. That's a real big one for chil for people. But I feel like when I'm working with people that in recovery, that I'm hearing their little children talk about what happened to them. And I have to be very careful afterwards because all of a sudden I'm flooding with sadness and I. Anger at the same time at how can people do this to people, to children. And so this is just another dimension of it. And so I have to be very careful in how I take care of myself. Oftentimes, I have to call someone and just say, look, I just heard this. I just need to share this. Because it's because I am flooding right now. And I almost feel like I can't separate what's happening. What happened to them, to me to myself. Now I will tell you that the practices that you were mentioning and this grounding practice of in, and these when releasing trauma, shaking rubbing the arms. Holding onto a rock grounding techniques to remind myself and that I'm in this present moment, taking these breaths in, affirming that I'm here, affirming that my higher power has my back. I can move through these moments and not be too hijacked by them, but sometimes they stick to me and sometimes they accumulate. And I have had people that I've worked with, particularly when I've been in a mentoring position with someone and I've given them a lot of my time and I've walked them through some very. Difficult experiences and they're growing and go and they're getting better. And then all of a sudden it feels out of left field they relapse. And I, and then I can't help but be triggered to think that somehow. I should have seen this somehow. I should have stopped this. Or I, or where were the signs? And then I'm having a reaction now and I'm really triggered because I'm thinking oh my gosh they were hiding, they were lying and and I make it all about me. 'cause that's 'cause it's about me that they I wasn't there to stop them. It's just insane the what happens as you go along. But. But like you said, and this is the truth, anytime we have these triggers and we're activated, there's something going on that's deeper behind that and there's healing that's gonna happen from this. And yes, maybe I didn't react correct the right way in a compassionate, loving way in that moment. But I will cycle back to coming to that place and I will make amends for that. But I also need to protect my hurts. Parts because usually it goes way back to my life. Very young. And I didn't, I don't feel safe with that person anymore. And I've gotta figure out how do I learn to trust again? Cause we wanna, this trust thing is can be a real problem when you've haven't had trust with people in your life. And that's a trigger in itself. Not being able to, when trustworthy behavior comes into your life, that triggers this oh, walls up. Can you relate to that?

Heather 18:16

a hundred percent. And I don't think we come to the party with a whole lot of trust to begin with, and so I didn't and it takes I have to be, I. Aware of where I'm at, who I'm with and know that I am safe, that I am in a safe space. I am safe regardless of what might be going on around me. And if it doesn't feel safe, I can remove myself from the situation because we can't predict what's going to happen. We can't predict if someone has decided to go back out. And they make that decision long before they pick up. And it's it's something that you can play with in your mind and eventually convince because we're wired in a certain way. I'm wired in a certain way, my brain will tell me. If I start to drift away from what is healthy for me, my brain will tell me that it's okay. You've been sober for a long time. You should. You should be totally fine now. And that is a huge like red flag. And I don't get those thoughts very often, but I will get thoughts of if I'm out, especially now that it's getting close to summer and being out and. Having a cold beer. And I laugh because it was never just a beer ever. It was never just a happy hour. It was a happy days and it was like and that's where part of this too is it's oh, it's very that. What did you say that euphoric recall that, seductiveness of it and it's okay, wait a second. Yeah, a cold beer sounds really good right now, but what would I do with that? Where would I go with it? And I take it as way down the road. I take it way past that one beer and at the end of the road, what does that look like? And it's something that's destructive and it's not something, and it would be just as bad today as it would've been when I first got sober. Probably worse. So thinking it all the way through, whether it's a drink or whatever, a person, a way to stop feeling and get out of myself what, whatever that might be, it's like important to think it through and be like, okay, what's gonna happen at the end of this situation? And. If you really think it through and you're honest with yourself, that's a deterrent right there. And then absolutely talking about it. Like I would call you and say, oh, this came up, and, oh, I did that, or, and you would listen and you'd be like, there's no judgment. It's this is what, this is how we grow. But if I don't tell the people I trust in my circle, then I'm in trouble. Because then that means I'm keeping a secret and that's toxic for me. So I think having being aware of the environment, being aware of internal triggers, being aware of external triggers halt, making sure that if we're feeling temptation and triggers, am I hungry? Am I angry, lonely, tired? And taking care of that first. And I think there was a book not too long it was written a while back, but it's, I think it was called Living Sober. And it was about really simple, practical things you can do when you're feeling like you wanna. Relapse or go back out, maybe have some sugar, maybe you're tired, maybe you need to eat something. It's very practical. Next steps. And that really helped me back then and now I know enough about, I'm self-aware enough to know that I can't be in certain situations and I can't be with certain people. I have to watch how much I work. I have to watch how much I spend because it's a per, I'm a person of extremes and I have a addictive personality and this life has helped me to. Be aware of that. Know where those extremes come from and what they're trying to protect me from, and understand where they will take me. And that's why I can't figure this out on my own. I have to talk to other wises people that will tell me the truth and I trust them to tell me the truth.

Peg 23:40

Another way of saying this. So I'm for some reason going back in time to when I was in a relapse prevention group and we were all in early recovery, and we would get on these stories and we would talk about being at a bar and blah, blah, blah. And and then we'd start saying, oh yeah, and then we would. We would go and get the cocaine and then we would be on a yacht and then we'd be like we'd go over the, all these like great wild stories. Then we'd run a plane and fly to another island. This is the kind of stuff I used to do, but anyway, I'm just kidding. No, it's true. But anyway but the, a therapist would say, okay, everybody, we're gonna stop here 'cause we're romanticizing the disease and I need each one of you to share something that, That shows you how this does is not true. Like what happened? I ended up throwing up and in the hospital 'cause I was dehydrated. You know what I mean? Like you gotta, like you said, think it through, right? And so that I was just thinking about those aspects of it, but it's just when we get these triggers, these things that bring us to the past even something like that, a romanticizing thought about it can bring that back now. I will, I do wanna say that one of the things that also I think is important is that as we try to live more awakened lives and be more, have more self-mastery over emotions cause a lot of this journey is learning how to. Feel again, and then learning how to manage these emotions and to be able to recognize when you have been triggered. When you lashed out the last year, outers and the fighters like myself always are having to say, I'm sorry that I called you this or that and then there's the freezers oftentimes just turn inward and they don't respond right. But but to know when to be able to say I'm I'm sorry, I was triggered. I honestly felt such a visceral response. It's almost as if I was taken over by something and I couldn't stop it. It was like a train happening here and I will try to do better next time. And or I wanna work on this, I wanna do better, and I go back and I try to do repair. 'cause this is something that I've seen in myself. The lashing, the verbal abuse. I driving down the road, somebody's up tailgating me, then they go racing alongside of me and they're screaming at me. And then I get triggered by that and I start pressing the gas pedal. My kids are in the car and I'm chasing after them. I'm sorry to tell you, but that's how I used to be when I'm in early recovery. And then I got, I'm scaring my kids and then I'm and then I've gotta slow down and it's so really just be kind and gentle to yourself. There's always gonna be these little things that trip us up. Keep practicing ways to just slow it down, to pause, to take that breath to ground yourself into the moment I'm safe. Is this my property? Does it have my name on it? Do I really need to yell at the stranger who's. Flicking me the bird. Do I really need to give that energy back and try, can I stay in the front part of my brain and not in the reactionary part of my brain? Please know, it takes a while. It takes practice, and it's so worth it. And even when you're 20 plus years down the road, like me I was triggered not the other day, and I just lost it felt physically all these and then I was like, I lashed out. And then I was like, oh my gosh, here you are again. Here you are again. But do I beat myself up and go, oh my gosh, you're never gonna get better. You keep doing this. I'm not, because that's the first time I've seen that behavior in years. And so I'm grateful that there's space between it. In the beginning years, I had it all the time. Every other day. Every day. Maybe a couple times a day, but that's part of the, I'm fine. And getting, feeling this embodiment, getting, coming back into befriending this wonderful body, this breath this wonderful mind of ours. Really learning how to just slow it down, learning how to trust another human being to call. Pick up the phone and call. I'm getting triggered. I'll just say one last thing here, peg. 'cause one of the things that was really painful was when I was triggered by my kids' behaviors when they weren't listening to me. And I would start to get really irritated and I would just start to say, listen, I'm getting, mommy's getting upset, mommy's getting triggered. Mommy is gonna start to raise her voice. So I really need you guys to work with me to help me not to get to that place. 'cause I don't wanna be scary anymore. And you know what? They would stop and they would actually. Do it. They would shift and oftentimes that's all we need to do. When I'm talking to my husband and he's saying something, I, and that's really getting to me. I'll just say, I'm starting to get irritated and I'm just gonna take a breath and walk away. I really don't think it's a good thing for us to continue to talk about, because I do not wanna shift this beautiful gift of serenity that this journey has given me. I comprehend the word soen now. All right. And I do not want anything to take that away. Especially me, 'cause I'm the one who's usually taking it away from me because of how I'm acting and reacting and triggered, so acceptance is the answer there's always gonna be this happening in the world and we just gotta just recognize that every day there's gonna be an ankle biter. And how do you, how are you gonna deal with it?

Heather 29:11

Have a strategy. It's okay, being aware of it. Number one, thinking we're not immune. To this, it's going to have, we're human beings. And there was no logic behind the way that I used to destructively drink. It wasn't a logical prefrontal cortex thing. It was about the back of my brain, the lizard brain or whatever you call it, but

Peg 29:38

yeah, this your brain's good.

Heather 29:40

part of me that's about survival and that's where the trigger response comes from for me. It's wow. Like you, you said, it hijacked me and it just took me over like a runaway train and I didn't know how to stop it. And it's because there's no logic to it other than Okay. Being aware of it and taking that brief pause and breathing. And getting grounded where are my feet right now? And calling somebody having a trigger response toolkit. It's being aware and understanding how halt plays a role and breathing 'cause that slows everything down. And calling people, making sure that we don't romanticize. This what used to be for me. A destructive life. And I love the serenity that I can feel today and enjoy, just like you said. And so when people say, I can't believe I did this, I can't believe all, and I'm like, there's no logic to this. Life is gonna come at us. How do we handle it? And sometimes it's not gonna be logically. So we need to be, we need to have a plan. We need to think about where is it safe for me to be and not be what people are safe and not safe. Who do I trust? Who is, what is my gut telling me to stay away from? And that's the other thing is I learned to trust my instincts, my intuition, right?

Peg 31:19

That's a process too, to learn how to trust ourselves every day that we don't pick up, we are getting stronger in that ability to trust

Heather 31:27

We are.

Peg 31:27

And one thing, one thing I, I. Didn't say, but oftentimes all I need to, sometimes all I need to do is just shut my mouth and walk And I think walking away, walking outside, walking moving, removing myself from the space into another space is the first thing I need to do

Heather 31:49

Yeah.

Peg 31:51

And I, and act before I harm somebody, because I think that is, that's I feel like it's exhausting we do get reprieves more and more as our bodies start to relax more. As we start to take more gentle care. We have more self care in our lives. We, we love ourselves more. We don't wanna harm ourselves with our anger and our reactions. And so a lot of it comes back to just that just being. Just being a human being

Heather 32:22

And giving yourself a break giving yourself a break. We're not these enlightened masters that float above the rest of the human race. We're humans and we're going to respond in human ways to life, and that's okay. It's like we. I unfortunately had an unhealthy way of coping with all that, and today I've learned new ways of coping with difficult situations. I. That come up. And they will come up. We've learned today that it's part of being alive and to not take it personally. 'cause a lot of the times it isn't about me. And get back to that serene place. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Recovery, the whole enchilada. And if you connected with today's episode, please share it like it. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Your feedback does help us to shape future conversations. I think next time we're gonna be talking about boundaries. Love that. That's a great topic. Anyway, we love you and remember that your recovery story with all its flavors and textures and complexities matters deeply. And until next time, stay strong and keep growing.

Peg 33:45

Yeah. Love you,

Heather 33:46

you, honey.

Peg 33:48

Take care.